Do children, babies, or aborted babies go to Heaven?

Since we are still on this topic of babies, family, abortion, etc…. I decided to introduce another issue that is somewhat relevant to the topics aforementioned in the most recent posts written by Lionel. Do babies or children before the claimed age of accountability(in which no one knows the age) go to Heaven when they die? Let me also say that I have never lost a child and I am the father of Tyris Lamont Jr.(21 months old) I am not making light of this situation but in the same token do not want to give a false hope that cannot not be affirmed by scripture. My heart goes out to those who have lost babies by miscarriage, stillborns, or early deaths. I realize this becomes an issue when we try to figure out a way to get babies to heaven after premature death while staying true to scripture-never to compromise to sooth our frail consciences.

My position on this: I believe with the knowledge I possess concerning the attributes of God and Him being loving and kind and everything else; I say that God would allow unborn babies to go to Heaven. With that said, let me also say I and many others have a very hard time making this argument from scripture. Many people make arguments mainly from the Old Testament to secure their position and cannot be brought to fruition amongst the New Testament revealed revelation. I would like to examine briefly some of the arguments of people who say that without a doubt they can assure the eternal security of the unborn.

Some of the Typical Arguments

2 Samuel 12:23 But now he is dead, wherefore should I fast? can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me.

Matt 26:24 The Son of man goeth as it is written of him: but woe unto that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! it had been good for that man if he had not been born.

If we are to stand before God how can we be judged or receive our crowns if we never had the opportunity to sin against an infinitely Holy God.

To further examine these as listed

1) We recall the story of David and his heinous sin with Bathsheba and his treacherous murder of her husband. If you recall David and Bathsheba had their first child and the baby died. David makes a statement that makes it seem as if he assumed he would one day be with this child after his death. My question is can we assume that this passage means distinctly that David was 100% sure that his child was in Heaven? We have to stretch very far to draw that conclusion from this narrative event.

2) This may not be as popular but I have heard on a couple of occasions that this somehow means that if he was not born or killed by Herod of someone that he would be in a better place. Not worth further investigation.

3) Once again I would like to believe that God is merciful and would save the unborn babies but can that be found in scripture? There is only one sacrifice sufficient for our sin and He is Christ. The Bible makes absolutely no exceptions regarding this issue. Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: & Romans 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one [judgment came] upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one [the free gift came] upon all men unto justification of life.

David said in Psalm 51:5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me. Along with Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God. Now, is the all here inclusive of all humanity excluding babies? Do babies become sinners at a particular age or are they in Adam as well? Some brothers at my fellowship had this discussion on Sunday during our Lord’s Supper and one said, “If we can be assured that unborn babies go to heaven then the Abortionist should be seen as the most merciful people to walk the Earth!” Let us look at another passage that I am sure that you knew since I am a reformed brother I would bring up….

Romans 9:11For [the children] being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;) 12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger. 13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. 14 What shall we say then? [Is there] unrighteousness with God? God forbid. 15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. 16 So then [it is] not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

From this passage do we understand this to be normative or exclusive to just Esau and Jacob. I think most would say normative and we know this to be coined as Election. Some might say but…Jacob and Esau were born and lived long lives. By this some would assume that if they had died in the womb that this truth will no longer apply. From scripture we cleary see that God elects some and others are not elected to be in the family of God and God still remains perfectly just.

To clarify for those who think I am trying to put all unborn babies in Hell-I am not!! I am simply saying that no one can emphatically make a claim that they know with 100% certainty that all babies go to Heaven. We can lay hold to God’s righteous loving character and many other attributes but based on this revelation-The Bible. We see there is only one acceptable propitiation which is Christ, all others apart from Christ are in Adam.

I did not exhaust all of the arguments that on this issue because I would love to hear some insight from a Biblical perspective regarding this topic.

God Bless in Christ, Tyris Sr.

A lot f debate has already begun on this topic and a couple others on babies. I would encourage you to dialogue here... http://blackandreformedministries.com/

Interesting Tithing Video

Article HERE I got this video from my brother Karsten's site. Enjoy



I wrote an article on this a while ago listed HERE

Be A Straight Shooter

I Corinthians 13 :1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become [as] sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. And though I have [the gift of] prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing. And though I bestow all my goods to feed [the poor], and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.

Over the past 3 months I have had more than my share of many many theological debates. Some were mild conversations, radical conversations, and just plain ignorant debates. Quite honestly I did maintain my composure and never raised my voice or did anything that would not reflect the attributes of Christ. No! I am not flawless but it was important for me not to descend to character bashing or anything of the sort.

Before the Lord dramatically changed my heart I used to study apologetics relentlessly as if I was cramming for a big test or exam one day. I was a machine gun waiting to shoot the next victim down with my apologetic bullets ready to fire. If anyone even hinted of something that related to morals, The Bible, afterlife, or religion I was more than ready to fire. The thing I was lacking was agapē love. Therefore it fell on many dull and irritated ears. I had to ask myself the question; "What is my motive behind learning all of this important information?" At the heart of the matter was pride and knowledge with the intent to win an argument.

Aforementioned I have had plenty of opportunities to share the gospel and would like to share two instances.

The first was with a woman at my part-time job and she is a devout Jehovah's Witness. She is about 65 years old and I think God has used and is using me to share the Gospel with her one last time. My first encounter with her was around Christmas time and we both agreed that the commercialization of Christmas was over emphasized so I thought she was a church attendee but could not tell what her stance was theologically. I pretty consistently take my Bible with me wherever I go along with something else Biblical to read. My second encounter with this woman was when she saw me reading my Bible and very rudely(as she would have thought was coming to my rescue) grabbed my Bible and told me all of the times the Hebrew word YHWH(Yahweh) was changed to Lord or Jehovah in the Bible and she was infuriated. I said, "OK what is your point?" She says, "You have a contaminated Bible" So politely before I pulled out my sword I wanted to size her up before her decapitation. She proudly proclaimed that she was a Witness. To sum up this long three months of debating with this woman-I found myself debating semantics for hours a week as the Jehovah's Witness' are trained to do regarding the Doctrine of the Trinity in which they emphatically deny.

I finally through the grace of God realized what I was doing and simply asked her, "How are you saved?" She says, "By works and grace" This is a direct contradiction to God's Word in Ephesians 2:8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God-- not by works, so that no one can boast. Plain and simple since I understand in Romans 1:16 I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile.

I calmly and politely told heard that if she did not turn from her sins and repent that she and her Jehovah's Witness' will shortly be in Hell. Now, this is something I should have done a long time ago but I neglected the fact that it is my obligation to be an ambassador and messenger-meaning I simply say what my King has already pronounced.

I pray for her regularly. I do believe that this may be her last chance for salvation. This woman has had 4 strokes in the last 5 years and the Lord I know has been gracious with her because she looks great and is 100% mobile.

The second situation is a old friend of mine for over 5 years. This is a friend who called me out of the blue and usually calls me when he wants to feels spiritual for a moment. This gentleman is 1 year older than me and has been married a little longer than me and his wife committed adultery in the past with 2 other men. During this trial he and his wife got back together and wanted to seek reconciliation since they have 3 beautiful daughters. He wanted to work in out and they had many ups and downs and unfortunately this man committed adultery himself and is now in a relationship with a woman who is 25 his senior. He has no intent to work this out with his wife and right now is in the process of moving in with this 50+ year old woman. He came to my house and we talked for 3 hours. I gave him the Gospel backwards and forwards and told him that he is living in sin and would go to hell if he did not repent of this lifestyle. I am also in continual prayer for this lost brother.

I listed these examples because sometimes we can either get caught up in quarrelsome arguments or be too interested in salvaging relationships. It is our obligation to give everyone the gospel regardless of how it makes them or us feel. This is simply our duty as followers of Christ-Our Lord. If you really want to be a friend to anyone regardless if it be your wife, husband, family member, or co-worker. You will be the best friend ever if you simply open your mouth and God could use the seed you plant in their heart to save them. I am not against apologetics and I think they are useful along side of the Gospel but it is only the Gospel and the working of the Holy Spirit that brings about regeneration that saves.

Tolerance of Evil is Evil Itself

I thought this is a good article written by a great guy. Enjoy


By Daryl Wingerd site here

"Congratulations to Corey Delaney . . . ."
That's how the news broadcaster began his story about a 16-year-old in Australia who recently hosted a party in his parents' home while they were away on vacation. The party, which was advertised on Delaney's "My Space" page, drew 500 people along with a lot of alcohol. It resulted in $20,000 damage to the home and had to be broken up by police officers using dogs.
The broadcaster may have been using sarcasm when he offered his congratulations, but he went on to explain that the young man's stunt seems to have paid off. He now has a loyal following, particularly among teenagers, and has been booked as a party promoter, planner, and DJ at numerous events in Australia and the U.K. He even has a manager who will receive a share of the $100,000 he expects to make this year. His father is angry, of course, and has insisted that Corey live elsewhere, but he also stated that his son's new enterprise will be better than working as a carpenter's apprentice, as he had been previously employed.

Not everyone thinks Corey Delaney should be congratulated. Many recognize that the parties he promotes, like the one that made him famous, often involve underage drinking, immorality, and violence. Thousands have expressed their outrage at this arrogant young man who wears a fur-lined hooded jacket and over sized yellow sunglasses with a few strands of blond hair hanging in front. To many, Corey Delaney is a purveyor of evil who came by his success through evil means, but his popularity with so many others brings to mind a sobering biblical truth.

He who justifies the wicked and he who condemns the righteous,Both of them alike are an abomination to the Lord. (Prov. 17:15)

In this context, to justify a wicked person is to indicate that what he is doing is acceptable, or even praiseworthy. One person might justify a wicked person actively by saying, "I think that what you are doing is great!" Another might justify him passively by saying, "I would not do the same myself, but who am I to say that what you are doing is evil?" The promoters who are scrambling to book Mr. Delaney (before his undoubtedly short fuse of fame burns out) are in the first category. Those who would not emulate him personally, but who secretly admire his entrepreneurial spirit and financial success, are in the second. The point is, neither person is willing to call evil "evil."

The socially acceptable response to wickedness these days is to praise whatever good can be seen in a person while speaking in veiled terms about the bad (if the bad is mentioned at all). Using Corey Delaney's behavior as an example, the typical response might sound something like this: "Corey will have a lot of potential in the business world once he's gotten through his difficult teenage years." Applied to any form of sin, this is not the biblical message to those who practice evil.

A more appropriate response would be, "Corey, God sees you as wicked and rebellious. If you do not repent of your sins and find God's mercy through faith in Jesus Christ, you will suffer eternally under His wrath."

I am not suggesting that you should go around offering unsolicited rebukes to every unbeliever you see committing evil acts. Silence in the presence of sin is often appropriate as long as it does not amount to an implicit approval of the sin. I especially would not want Christians to start blasting away verbally at fellow Christians when they see them stumble in sin. Rebuke among fellow Christians has its place, but the love we share as believers "covers a multitude of sins" (1 Pet. 4:8) and should color every word we say to one another.

My real aim is not to persuade you to begin speaking more openly or directly to those who are practicing evil (though I would not discourage anyone from doing so either, if done compassionately). I simply want you to understand that the person who routinely approves of evil is simply practicing a different form of evil. "He who justifies the wicked . . . [is] an abomination to the Lord."

You may not be a rebellious teenager, or openly practicing some other form of obvious wickedness. You may profess to be a Christian who loves God. You may attend church regularly. You may even believe (as is so commonly taught in many religious circles) that tolerance of evil is a Christian virtue. But if you characteristically condone that which God condemns, you prove yourself to be God's enemy, not His friend. You show yourself to be just as much in need of His saving mercy as those whose more obvious sins you gladly tolerate.

Copyright © 2008 Daryl Wingerd Permission granted for reproduction in exact form, including web address. All other uses require written permission www.CCWonline.org

Sad, but true sometimes today.

John Macarthur and Kirk Cameron VIdeo.

Experience and Theology

To go from one extreme to the next in the time-span of only 2 or 3 years is truly a work of God. I have done this and have had the view from each perspective; “The Extreme Charismatic Experimenter” to the “Overly Reformed Analyzer.” I would like to share my experiences briefly with you and see if I can draw a bridge between these 2 cousins. I think there is much to be learned from circumstances in life before and after the completed Canon of scripture. A question many ask is-How do we balance our circumstances in life through dreams, experiences, and unexplainable events against the written revelation of God, the Bible? Can the two walk together?

Experience- particular instance of personally encountering or undergoing something.

Theology-the field of study and analysis that treats of God and of God’s attributes and relations to the universe; study of divine things or religious truth; divinity.

My Pastor invited me to a conference in Saint Louis last week on a Tuesday and Wednesday. I learned a lot of great things from many excellent preachers and teachers. What baffled me the most was with all these men being totally reformed in their theology-they had many experiences to go along with their teachings. Don’t misunderstand me here, all of their experiences were subjected to the Word of God but nevertheless, their experiences complimented and did not contradict the Word of God. I learned about Christmas Evans, Sandemanianism, John Mason Peck, and many other early Christian men who’s lives were also riddled with experiences.

Throughout all of scripture starting from Genesis and ending in Revelation we see God interacting with humanity continuously through visions, dreams, personal experiences, and even on some occasions audibly. Then all of a sudden with the culmination of the scriptures God now becomes mute and we somehow we no longer can hear from God. This may be a bit of a extreme some would say. Typically most doctrinally sound teachers of our day like John Macarthur would say that, “The foundation has already been laid and the primary communication from God to us is through the written Word of God.” In which I wholeheartedly agree with, but does that mean that God cannot and does not speak today?

My life from inception has been also accompanied by experiences that cannot necessarily be confirmed or discredited by the Bible. For one example I think of when I was born, I had neuroplastoma and my mother visited a church near the hospital since I was basically in and out of the hospital with my condition for about 2 years. While my mother was at the church(I assume it was charismatic) someone started to speak in tongues and apparently there was also a translator who translated the message or language to be Biblical.(To clarify, I believe tongues was(is) a language and not the gibberish we hear today and this can be proved throughout scripture) Long story short they called her up for prayer knowing about her situation already I assume from the translation. Excuse me for lacking the details but is this coincidence or God? I don’t know but I am sure everyone nowadays has a similar story like this one. I personally believe God would have healed my cancer apart from this churches prayers but He allowed for men and women to intercede for my health.

I have fasted for 17 days straight at a time while I was the “SUPER CHARISMATIC”, gave my last savings to the church, sought God for spiritual gifts, and many other extremes before looking to His Word first. I would encourage many of you to seek God through His written Word and if you do have a “EXPERIENCE” I would be overly skeptical since we live in such a deceptive age and our adversary is very crafty.


Gal 1:8
But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

While in the charismatic church I read many books with a untrained eye regarding things that contradicted scripture. Many things I read talking about the nature of Hell from a perspective or experience that cannot be found in scripture and in the same token contradicted Luk 16:19 - Luk 16:31. We have to have balance and understand that God can speak in any way He chooses but I would be cautious and say that hearing an audible voice is not normative and that whatever the experience might be, it will not contradict God’s word. If it does contradict most likely it is not God. This has been proved through time through all the famous cult leaders like Charles Taze Russell, Bringam Young, Joseph Smith, and many others.


Gal 1:8
But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed

In conclusion our experiences should absolutely never alter our theology(study of God-the Bible). On the contrary our theology and growth in the fear and knowledge of GOD through His word should ultimately be the filter in which our experiences are rendered legit and from God or a hoax by the deceiver.

Recommended Reading: Led by the Spirit by Jim Elliff